Dear Harlan,
In May, it will be four years that my boyfriend and I have been together. Whenever we talk about marriage, we argue. He is American, comes from a divorced family and has lived on his own. I'm from a Latin family with different values and live at home with my parents. My boyfriend wants us to live together before we get married, to see if it will work. In return, he will get married in a Catholic church (he's Jewish but not religious). At first, I agreed, although I did not like the idea. Later, he told me he wants us to have a rabbi present at the wedding because he doesn't want to upset his family. This upset me, because he's always telling me that I should not do anything to please my family, that I should make myself happy. I've now told him that I no longer want to live with him because I feel that he is putting our relationship to the test before getting married. As a compromise, I told him we could get married in a Catholic church with a rabbi present (his friend did it), but we would not live together beforehand. Do you think I am being selfish?
Confused in Florida
Dear Confused,
ReplyDeleteSelfish? No. If he's looking to increase the chances of a successful marriage, moving in together is the wrong move (columnist disclosure: my wife and I moved in together after getting engaged). According to a University of Wisconsin study, cohabitation before marriage dramatically increases the risk of divorce or separation... Another problem with living together is that it's way too easy to NOT get married. If you get tired of that person, you can move out. If that person is a slob, you can move. Once married, moving out means separation or divorce - making it a bigger deal. If living together makes you uncomfortable because it causes stress for your family, he should appreciate that. If anyone can appreciate it, it's a Jewish son who has to tell his Jewish mom that the wedding will be held at a Catholic church. Oy.
I'm confused and I think the boyfriend is too. A rabbi at a Catholic wedding ceremony is not a relevant Jewish experience. A rabbi at a Jewish wedding ceremony is not essential. The minyan (ten or more Jewish adult worshippers who must be male if you're an Orthodox Jew) and the appropriate prayers are what are required.
ReplyDeleteWhether there can be an intermarriage in a Jewish ceremony is the telling question in my mind. Orthodox Jews would say no, that conversion is required.
What does this prospective attending rabbi say about the matter? Remember, if he participates in the ceremony he is due a fee/donation. If he's an honored guest you'll save money.
What is the boyfriend's outlook about prospective children and religion down the road? How much does he want them to know about Judaism (they will not generally be regarded as Jewish). Which Jewish holdiays and traditions are most relevant to him?
I wonder what was done before the Jewish Diaspora since, at that point in time the preservation of the Jewish people became overriding. Perhaps there is a more liberal tradition to resurrect.
You are not being selfish by not moving in with him- you are showing respect for yourself and for him. No matter if your Jew or Catholic, living toghether before marriage is strictly prohibited. So, if you were ever planning to have premarital sex why would it matter to either of you what religion the marriage ceremony was?? It wouldn't matter- you would have already commited the biggest sin of your life.
ReplyDeletebullshit, you are being selfish and stuck up, and none of this shit fuckin' matters anyway. Find sumthin' real to bitch about and grow some fuckin' balls bitch.
ReplyDeleteThe last comment was written by an immature reader who has no class. Learn how to give advice like an educated individual.
ReplyDeleteSuch a mouth at 8:30 in the morning... bad dreams, I suppose. No, I don't believe that you are being selfish by not wanting to move in with him before marriage. It has nothing to do with sex before marriage. If you're not comfortable with the situation then he should take that into account. But I also don't think he's necessarily (spelling?!) trying to "test" the relationship, either. Some people just see it as a neccesary (like that?!) step before marriage. But if you guys are planning on spending the rest of your lives together (and seeing as though you're catholic, I suppose you do) this is just a chance for you guys to practice comprimising. It's a skill which will need developing...
ReplyDeleteI'd like to comment about the reference to studies regarding living together before marriage. While there may be a statistically more divorces among those who live together before marriage, it is incorrect to assume that the cohabitation is the cause. None of the studies have identified the causes, although many conjectures have been made.
ReplyDeleteIf living together before marriage is a not cause of divorce, then not moving in together before will not decrease the chance of divorce. In addition, statistics of this sort are good at predicting averages, but not individuals. There can be a lot of variance from person to person.
Better than basing your choices on some statistics about large populations and averages would be to base it on knowledge about your partner and yourself. How committed are both of you? Are you both willing to work out your problems and discuss them openly? If you move in together before both of you are ready for that level of commitment, this could result in bad patterns (as in not discussing all problems openly, even if it is only frustration about him leaving dirty socks in the living room).
I personally feel that among two mature and ready individuals, there is nothing wrong with cohabitation before marriage. However, living together is not always easy. If the reasons presented for living together are things like "it would be more convenient" rather than feelings closer to those you would express in your marriage vows, perhaps cohabitation is not a good idea. It is quite a commitment and should be treated as such.
ok heres how to make it all work, both of you convert to protestantism, get married tomoro, and live happily ever after!
ReplyDeletenah, just messin, but if you can both make a major change together (like the above for example), then you can rely on each other and grow stronger as a consequence!
as to living together, i hope there is no problem, as my girlfriend and i plan on moving i together in england for 2 years before returning home and getting married!
God bless!